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前沿设计 1+1=1 双船合一的可能性讨论

2017-2-7 10:29 · 帆船设计
逆流 楼主 来自: 广东
Orisun 发表于 2016-11-15 16:16
说实话我能理解帆友的想法,但绝对不会支持这种行为。首先,每条船单独的强度都是有数的,前后联接恰恰是在 ...

怎么说呢,我觉得这可以是个思维上的碰撞和假设,未必会真的去这么做,但是交换想法和思维方式也是有好处的,在不断的冒出新想法,不断的被推翻的过程中,会学到一些以前可能没注意到的问题。

至于可行性,从目前状况来看,组合双体船或者三体船的方案还是有不错的可实施性,但是同时也是市面shang已经有的方案了。单体船的话,应该是不太可能实现,实现了代价也会很高。会有得不偿失的感觉,但是在未来随着材料和科技的发展,也未必是不可能普及的。

这有点像我在造船区发了一个改动设计的帖子,也许不断假设,不断推翻原来的想法,甚至到最后一些内容结果还是只能使用原设计,但是可以从中学到东西,这就够了。何况有时候还真的会想到一些可行性的改动方案。
2016-11-15 19:21
逃亡者号 来自: 广东
我認真地閱讀過。。。
2016-11-16 19:06
建造条小船,能跑多远就多远。
你们懂的!
爱海一夫 来自: 湖北武汉
      在这个网站上,有许多的思想火花,希望都像佟晓舟老师在北京果村建筑完成 帆船GR-750、刀锋的一步步升级版的双体船、烟斗的双体充气帆船、蓝色海风DlY4.2米小帆船,像他们那样将设想变为实物。

      小帆船不仅仅是纸上谈兵的炫耀,而是实实在在漂浮在水上,迎着风浪的实在!
2016-11-16 20:22
2016-11-18 16:25
不过两个船组合成单体船,估计会有连接强度上的问题,这个是没办法避免的。 可以去参考他们国外这种方案,用的是什么材料。 另外因为你找出来那条船型是细长型,连接的位置比较小,如果是两个单体形成一个大单  详情 回复
逆流 楼主 来自: 广东汕头
爱海一夫 发表于 2016-11-16 20:22
在这个网站上,有许多的思想火花,希望都像佟晓舟老师在北京果村建筑完成 帆船GR-750、刀锋的一步步 ...

不过两个船组合成单体船,估计会有连接强度上的问题,这个是没办法避免的。

可以去参考他们国外这种方案,用的是什么材料。

另外因为你找出来那条船型是细长型,连接的位置比较小,如果是两个单体形成一个大单体,那么可能链接位不能是一个大的,应该分成很多个小的一体的链接位,才足够坚固,这个具体就得懂结构的人研究一下了。

如果是要用小船体来组合做出较大的船身空间的话,我会比较倾向三体船的方案(中间大船体,两侧小船体那种),三体船可以像双体船那样,利用船体和船体之间,做出宽阔的甲板,在空间扩展上是比较好的方案。
2016-11-18 16:25
2017-2-4 17:18
刚刚看了本网站上 Sailing版主在(帆船图纸)栏目上发的一篇资料 Ship Design - 100 Boat Design Reviewed。上面就要关于1+1的讨论。  详情 回复
爱海一夫 来自: 中国
逆流 发表于 2016-11-18 16:25
不过两个船组合成单体船,估计会有连接强度上的问题,这个是没办法避免的。

可以去参考他们国外这种方 ...

刚刚看了本网站上 Sailing版主在(帆船图纸)栏目上发的一篇资料 Ship Design - 100 Boat Design Reviewed。上面就要关于1+1的讨论。
2017-2-4 17:18
爱海一夫 来自: 中国
Nesting Dinghies
Designs by Kaufman Design, Inc., Danny Greene, and Charles M. Strayer
Commentary by Mike O'Brien
onsider a tender's design criteria: The boat must
be small, yet it will be called upon to carry huge
loads; it should row easily, but it will be wide
relative to its meager length in order to gain capacity;
in the interest of easy handling, it ought not weigh too
much, yet we know it will suffer terrible abuse. No
doubt about it, drawing a proper dinghy can be an
exercise in contradiction.
The three dinghies shown here address the prob-
lems of stowage, performance, and capacity by split-
ting apart amidships. The resulting pieces will nest
neatly on the deck of a cruising boat or in a shoreside
storage shed. The smallest of the trio, Danny Greene's
10-foot 4-inch Chameleon, folds into a 5-foot 3-inch
package that lives on the forward deck of his 34-foot
ketch. After bisection, Mike Kaufman's and Charles
Strayer's longer (about 16-foot) boats can be nested —
or they can sail off as separate, more or less equal, 8-
foot halves.
Kaufman describes the advantages of the type while
explaining the reasoning behind his J.P. Downs
Memorial Bifurcating Dinghy (hereafter, the JPDMBD):
"No one," he says, "gets stranded at a mooring while
the dinghy is ashore, heavy loads can be carried, and
argumentative siblings can be sent off — in different
directions."
Strayer's design allows "break-apart" racing: The
boats could sail the outward leg as separate 8-foot
dinghies, join together at the windward mark, and run
home as 16-foot schooners. Or the process might be
reversed — that is, the boats could head out in their
long configuration and sail for the finish as 8-footers.
Given the latter format, I suspect that volunteers for
the race committee might be difficult to find.
All of the designs shown here specify plywood con-
struction for stiffness, light weight, and ease of build-
ing and upkeep. They all have pram bows in order to
make the best use of space and to provide adequate
buoyancy forward. But, whatever similarities in con-
cept these three (five?) boats might share, they are quite
different from one another in shape and detail.
Chameleon's V-bottom, with considerable twist and
deadrise in its forward sections, shows the influence
of the British Mirror Dinghy (an early stitch-and-glue
design). The flat-bottomed JPDMBD has dory-like sec-
tions, and Strayer's Longsplice displays a multi-chine
hull.
Danny Greene might lay claim to being the dean of
nesting-dinghy designers. By his count, more than a
thousand boats have been built to the 10 break-apart
designs that have come from his drawing board. He
describes Chameleon as "my best all around...by far."
Construction is dirt simple: Cut out plywood panels for
sides and bottom, and join them with temporary butt
blocks (where they will be separated later). Lace the
hull together with monofilament fishing line. Insert
the "matingbulkheads." After the "inside joints" have
been filleted with epoxy and fiberglass, and the rails
and quarter knees have been installed, the boat can be
separated into its forward and after halves. You should
understand that, although the hull goes together
quickly, considerable detail work is required for a two-
piece dinghy. The designer, who built the prototype
for his own use, estimates construction time at 100
hours for the rowing version, with an additional 40
hours required to complete the sailing rig and
appendages.
Two Yz-inch stainless-steel bolts located at the upper
outboard corners of the mating bulkheads and an inter-
locking latch at the daggerboard trunk hold Chameleon
together when she's in the water. The boat can be
assembled while afloat.
2017-2-4 19:22
爱海一夫 来自: 中国
nesting dinghy1.jpg
nesting dinghy2.jpg
nesting dinghy3.jpg

2017-2-4 19:46
2017-2-6 00:35
像这个图纸的设计,准确的说不是1+1了,而是一个折叠船,因为其中有一部分是专门为了当船尾的,形状上会有所限制。 其实如果初衷只是为了让一条5米船能放在车顶上,倒也是不错,也没必要非要单独使用,毕竟不管取  详情 回复
逆流 楼主 来自: 广东汕头

像这个图纸的设计,准确的说不是1+1了,而是一个折叠船,因为其中有一部分是专门为了当船尾的,形状上会有所限制。

其实如果初衷只是为了让一条5米船能放在车顶上,倒也是不错,也没必要非要单独使用,毕竟不管取其船头部分还是船尾部分,船的形状都有所限制。
2017-2-6 00:35
2017-2-6 22:17
上面是三个方案,不是一个方案。第一个方案就是两个相同的小船,合成一个大船。  详情 回复
爱海一夫 来自: 中国
逆流 发表于 2017-2-6 00:35
像这个图纸的设计,准确的说不是1+1了,而是一个折叠船,因为其中有一部分是专门为了当船尾的,形状上会 ...

上面是三个方案,不是一个方案。第一个方案就是两个相同的小船,合成一个大船。
2017-2-6 22:17
2017-2-7 10:29
个人会比较倾向折叠船的方案。 既然可以折叠了,那么一个车顶上也就可以放入两个船体了,那么就不存在需要两个小船去合体的问题,直接就是车顶上拿下来,组成一个5米船就可以了。  详情 回复
逆流 楼主 来自: 广东汕头
爱海一夫 发表于 2017-2-6 22:17
上面是三个方案,不是一个方案。第一个方案就是两个相同的小船,合成一个大船。

个人会比较倾向折叠船的方案。

既然可以折叠了,那么一个车顶上也就可以放入两个船体了,那么就不存在需要两个小船去合体的问题,直接就是车顶上拿下来,组成一个5米船就可以了。
2017-2-7 10:29
2017-2-7 20:05
有道理!  详情 回复
Orisun 发表于 2016-11-15 16:16
说实话我能理解帆友的想法,但绝对不会支持这种行为。首先,每条船单独的强度都是有数的,前后联接恰恰是在 ...

怎么说呢,我觉得这可以是个思维上的碰撞和假设,未必会真的去这么做,但是交换想法和思维方式也是有好处的,在不断的冒出新想法,不断的被推翻的过程中,会学到一些以前可能没注意到的问题。

至于可行性,从目前状况来看,组合双体船或者三体船的方案还是有不错的可实施性,但是同时也是市面shang已经有的方案了。单体船的话,应该是不太可能实现,实现了代价也会很高。会有得不偿失的感觉,但是在未来随着材料和科技的发展,也未必是不可能普及的。

这有点像我在造船区发了一个改动设计的帖子,也许不断假设,不断推翻原来的想法,甚至到最后一些内容结果还是只能使用原设计,但是可以从中学到东西,这就够了。何况有时候还真的会想到一些可行性的改动方案。
2016-11-15 19:21
我認真地閱讀過。。。
2016-11-16 19:06
建造条小船,能跑多远就多远。
你们懂的!
      在这个网站上,有许多的思想火花,希望都像佟晓舟老师在北京果村建筑完成 帆船GR-750、刀锋的一步步升级版的双体船、烟斗的双体充气帆船、蓝色海风DlY4.2米小帆船,像他们那样将设想变为实物。

      小帆船不仅仅是纸上谈兵的炫耀,而是实实在在漂浮在水上,迎着风浪的实在!
2016-11-16 20:22
2016-11-18 16:25
不过两个船组合成单体船,估计会有连接强度上的问题,这个是没办法避免的。 可以去参考他们国外这种方案,用的是什么材料。 另外因为你找出来那条船型是细长型,连接的位置比较小,如果是两个单体形成一个大单  详情 回复
爱海一夫 发表于 2016-11-16 20:22
在这个网站上,有许多的思想火花,希望都像佟晓舟老师在北京果村建筑完成 帆船GR-750、刀锋的一步步 ...

不过两个船组合成单体船,估计会有连接强度上的问题,这个是没办法避免的。

可以去参考他们国外这种方案,用的是什么材料。

另外因为你找出来那条船型是细长型,连接的位置比较小,如果是两个单体形成一个大单体,那么可能链接位不能是一个大的,应该分成很多个小的一体的链接位,才足够坚固,这个具体就得懂结构的人研究一下了。

如果是要用小船体来组合做出较大的船身空间的话,我会比较倾向三体船的方案(中间大船体,两侧小船体那种),三体船可以像双体船那样,利用船体和船体之间,做出宽阔的甲板,在空间扩展上是比较好的方案。
2016-11-18 16:25
2017-2-4 17:18
刚刚看了本网站上 Sailing版主在(帆船图纸)栏目上发的一篇资料 Ship Design - 100 Boat Design Reviewed。上面就要关于1+1的讨论。  详情 回复
逆流 发表于 2016-11-18 16:25
不过两个船组合成单体船,估计会有连接强度上的问题,这个是没办法避免的。

可以去参考他们国外这种方 ...

刚刚看了本网站上 Sailing版主在(帆船图纸)栏目上发的一篇资料 Ship Design - 100 Boat Design Reviewed。上面就要关于1+1的讨论。
2017-2-4 17:18
Nesting Dinghies
Designs by Kaufman Design, Inc., Danny Greene, and Charles M. Strayer
Commentary by Mike O'Brien
onsider a tender's design criteria: The boat must
be small, yet it will be called upon to carry huge
loads; it should row easily, but it will be wide
relative to its meager length in order to gain capacity;
in the interest of easy handling, it ought not weigh too
much, yet we know it will suffer terrible abuse. No
doubt about it, drawing a proper dinghy can be an
exercise in contradiction.
The three dinghies shown here address the prob-
lems of stowage, performance, and capacity by split-
ting apart amidships. The resulting pieces will nest
neatly on the deck of a cruising boat or in a shoreside
storage shed. The smallest of the trio, Danny Greene's
10-foot 4-inch Chameleon, folds into a 5-foot 3-inch
package that lives on the forward deck of his 34-foot
ketch. After bisection, Mike Kaufman's and Charles
Strayer's longer (about 16-foot) boats can be nested —
or they can sail off as separate, more or less equal, 8-
foot halves.
Kaufman describes the advantages of the type while
explaining the reasoning behind his J.P. Downs
Memorial Bifurcating Dinghy (hereafter, the JPDMBD):
"No one," he says, "gets stranded at a mooring while
the dinghy is ashore, heavy loads can be carried, and
argumentative siblings can be sent off — in different
directions."
Strayer's design allows "break-apart" racing: The
boats could sail the outward leg as separate 8-foot
dinghies, join together at the windward mark, and run
home as 16-foot schooners. Or the process might be
reversed — that is, the boats could head out in their
long configuration and sail for the finish as 8-footers.
Given the latter format, I suspect that volunteers for
the race committee might be difficult to find.
All of the designs shown here specify plywood con-
struction for stiffness, light weight, and ease of build-
ing and upkeep. They all have pram bows in order to
make the best use of space and to provide adequate
buoyancy forward. But, whatever similarities in con-
cept these three (five?) boats might share, they are quite
different from one another in shape and detail.
Chameleon's V-bottom, with considerable twist and
deadrise in its forward sections, shows the influence
of the British Mirror Dinghy (an early stitch-and-glue
design). The flat-bottomed JPDMBD has dory-like sec-
tions, and Strayer's Longsplice displays a multi-chine
hull.
Danny Greene might lay claim to being the dean of
nesting-dinghy designers. By his count, more than a
thousand boats have been built to the 10 break-apart
designs that have come from his drawing board. He
describes Chameleon as "my best all around...by far."
Construction is dirt simple: Cut out plywood panels for
sides and bottom, and join them with temporary butt
blocks (where they will be separated later). Lace the
hull together with monofilament fishing line. Insert
the "matingbulkheads." After the "inside joints" have
been filleted with epoxy and fiberglass, and the rails
and quarter knees have been installed, the boat can be
separated into its forward and after halves. You should
understand that, although the hull goes together
quickly, considerable detail work is required for a two-
piece dinghy. The designer, who built the prototype
for his own use, estimates construction time at 100
hours for the rowing version, with an additional 40
hours required to complete the sailing rig and
appendages.
Two Yz-inch stainless-steel bolts located at the upper
outboard corners of the mating bulkheads and an inter-
locking latch at the daggerboard trunk hold Chameleon
together when she's in the water. The boat can be
assembled while afloat.
2017-2-4 19:22
nesting dinghy1.jpg
nesting dinghy2.jpg
nesting dinghy3.jpg

2017-2-4 19:46
2017-2-6 00:35
像这个图纸的设计,准确的说不是1+1了,而是一个折叠船,因为其中有一部分是专门为了当船尾的,形状上会有所限制。 其实如果初衷只是为了让一条5米船能放在车顶上,倒也是不错,也没必要非要单独使用,毕竟不管取  详情 回复

像这个图纸的设计,准确的说不是1+1了,而是一个折叠船,因为其中有一部分是专门为了当船尾的,形状上会有所限制。

其实如果初衷只是为了让一条5米船能放在车顶上,倒也是不错,也没必要非要单独使用,毕竟不管取其船头部分还是船尾部分,船的形状都有所限制。
2017-2-6 00:35
2017-2-6 22:17
上面是三个方案,不是一个方案。第一个方案就是两个相同的小船,合成一个大船。  详情 回复
逆流 发表于 2017-2-6 00:35
像这个图纸的设计,准确的说不是1+1了,而是一个折叠船,因为其中有一部分是专门为了当船尾的,形状上会 ...

上面是三个方案,不是一个方案。第一个方案就是两个相同的小船,合成一个大船。
2017-2-6 22:17
2017-2-7 10:29
个人会比较倾向折叠船的方案。 既然可以折叠了,那么一个车顶上也就可以放入两个船体了,那么就不存在需要两个小船去合体的问题,直接就是车顶上拿下来,组成一个5米船就可以了。  详情 回复
爱海一夫 发表于 2017-2-6 22:17
上面是三个方案,不是一个方案。第一个方案就是两个相同的小船,合成一个大船。

个人会比较倾向折叠船的方案。

既然可以折叠了,那么一个车顶上也就可以放入两个船体了,那么就不存在需要两个小船去合体的问题,直接就是车顶上拿下来,组成一个5米船就可以了。
2017-2-7 10:29
2017-2-7 20:05
有道理!  详情 回复
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